Retired prosecutor says Hogan 'not fit for the job' after comments on sexual assault survivors

Justice Minister John Hogan's apology for comments he made in the House of Assembly has fallen short for former Crown prosecutor Mike Murray, who says this entire situation shows a lack of understanding for basic truths in the criminal justice system.

Murray, who retired from the Crown's office late last year, said he was outraged by Hogan's comments, in which the justice minister said it was "impossible" for lawyers to retraumatize survivors of sexual assault in the province's justice system.

Hogan made the comments during a March 6 session of the legislature, and apologized on Thursday after women's advocacy groups penned an open letter.

"I've seen some pretty brutal treatment of victims over the years," Murray told the St. John's Morning Show. "How can the minister of justice have no idea what's going on?"

The comments came in response to a petition from NDP justice critic Lela Evans, which asked for lawyers to stop yelling at victims of sexual assault.

Hogan replied saying he didn't want anyone to "mislead" the House of Assembly on what was happening inside courtrooms.

"It's a very serious issue and the lawyers in this province are not retraumatizing sexual assault victims, whether it's a Crown or a legal aid or a private lawyer in this province. It's not the way it works. It's actually impossible for it to happen," Hogan said.

After apologizing on Thursday, he said he was speaking from his own legal experience, which didn't involve the criminal justice system or civil trials for sexual abuse survivors.

In a statement to CBC News on Friday, Hogan said he will work on learning more.

"I have indicated via phone, letter and publicly that my statement specifically related to lawyer conduct in court was wrong, and I apologized. I am aware and have stated publicly that the justice system presents many stages at which a survivor can be retraumatized," the statement read.

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"As minister, I am committed to continue learning and taking action towards a better understanding of sexual assault survivors and implementing processes to avoid retraumatization."

Murray said the average person has an understanding of what a sexual assault survivor goes through in the court process, and questions why the justice minister apparently did not.

"He's not fit for the job in my opinion," Murray said, adding that the man responsible for courtrooms in the province should know what's happening inside them.

Murray remembers working a case where a victim passed out while testifying and couldn't continue, leading to charges being dismissed. In another case, he recalled a woman being cross-examined by defence counsel for three days asking the same questions over and over, "looking for an opening to attack."

The former prosecutor also took issue with the second half of Hogan's comments on March 6, when he conceded that defence lawyers might yell at witnesses, but that it's on the judges to police their own courtrooms.

Murray said he's worked with new judges who were too timid to scold veteran defence lawyers, and other "old war horses" who felt an "all out battle" was the best way to hold a trial.

"I've held a lot of hands and seen a lot of tears over the years," Murray said.

In Thursday's interview, Hogan pointed to mandatory training for judges on sexual assault, which was introduced last fall, as one of the measures he's introduced to make the system more accessible for survivors.

NDP calls Hogan's attitude 'dismissive'

In a news release sent on Thursday, Lela Evans said she was pleased to hear the minister apologize for his comments, but said the apology itself was "deeply concerning."

Evans — like Murray — said it's troubling he could have gone his entire career in law without knowing what the justice system is like for victims of sexual abuse.

NDP MHA Lela Evans introduced a petition in the House of Assembly calling for, among other things, lawyers to stop yelling at sexual assault survivors. (Mike Simms/CBC)

"It's very sad that the top law officer of the Crown in this province, the attorney general, only had his eyes opened to what's happening in courtrooms after he wrongly accused victims of misrepresenting their own experiences with the justice system," said Evans.

"I hope that this is a lesson to everyone, especially people in positions of power, to be open to hearing peoples' lived experiences rather than defending a system that fails people seeking justice."

Evans also said his initial response to her petition on March 6 was problematic.

"Minister Hogan jumped to his feet and embodied the dismissive attitude that victims of sexual assault experience when seeking justice, and was willfully ignorant when their concerns were brought to the House of Assembly," she wrote.

Murray voiced a similar concern, calling Hogan's response "attack dog" behaviour.

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